on Camp Paradox (made possible by Loquacious)
Hi, campers,
I've moved the last several months of comments to an archive (a link to which can be found on the page from which you just came). This way, you don't have to scroll through so many old messages when checking here for new messages.
Tom
Contributed by Tom Field (tom@canby.com) on March 2, 2001.
Tom,
I just want to say "job well done" on the Paradox web site. I spent six summers at Paradox('63-'68) and I don't know where to begin, but let's begin, as they say, at the beginning.
The first new Paradox camper I met was when I boarded the bus in front of the Landis home in Highland Park, New Jersey, in the summer of '63. His name was Pip Bryant. Anybody remember Pip? Seated across from him was Curt Williams, the riflery instructor.
I just pulled out my '64 bunk picture. Let me throw some names out: George Hurst(Hugh's brother), Nicki(his dog), Charley Fisher, John Wienshienk, Jerry Rockoff, David Cipes, Andy Drogin, John Rothenberg, Alan Shier, Jerry Ruderman.
In '65, I had the distinct honor of having Norm "Storm" Tracey for a counselor in Bunk 14. We were a rowdey bunch: Mike Karol, Steve Berkowitz, Don Bloomenstiel, Peter Swerdlick, Tommy Rockoff, Alan Uhr, Alan Shier, Jerry Rockoff, and David Cipes.
My brother, Arnie Greenfield, recently returned from a "semi" class reunion of the Methuchen High School Class of 1968 held out in Los Angeles, California. He re-united with fellow Paradoxians Dick Rossner and Bruce Gelber.
In '66 I was with a lot of the same bunk mates, but add in Mike Salnick, and you have a totally different equation.
In '67 we had a lot of the same bunk mate as in '65, and we requested having Norm "Storm" Tracy for a second summer, and our request was granted. What a great summer that was: Jerry Rockoff, Tommy Rockoff, Mike Karol , Alan Shier, Rich Kaplan, Alan Uhr, and myself. I'll never forget it. That was the summer when they stripped me naked and held me down, and showed me pictures of naked girls, and took a polaroid picture of my private parts, and threatened to show it to the girls at Paragon!!!!! Nice guys, huh?
Just an added note: Did you know that when Brian Clifford left Camp Paradox, he became a High School Guidance Counselor at my high school? Yeah, it was really wierd having 'ole Bri' giving me advice about going to college.
I'm still lookin through the Paradox yearbooks to see if I missed some names. How about Mark Bell! Remember him! He was just a sort of laid back child of the '60's.
I see a picture of Stu Homer. I remember he used to play chess games with other people, but they would play the games with each other in their heads. Anyway, he became a doctor, practicing in Woodbridge, New Jersey. The only way I know this is that I became registered pharmacist and filled some of his prescriptions. Small world, right?
'68 was my last year as a camper, and I made it to the exalted "Log Cabin"(Cabin 30) along with Mike Salnick, Alan Shier, Rick Sanders, and Steve Zuck. A note to Mike Salnick and Alan Shier: Do you guys remember coming down to visit me overnight when you were in high school, and you guys jumped up and down on the beds so much that you broke them?
Does anybody remember the counselor Bruce Inglis? He's the one that made a project in '68 out of painting the tank by the dining hall parking lot to look like a "yellow submarine", as in the Beatle's song?
During my last night at Paradox, I stayed up discussing life with Jonathan Stone, the counselor advisor to the Paradoxian. I kept that last issue of the Paradoxian, and I guess it would be best to quote him directly: "We have described life in Paradox for those within and without the pull of these hills and waters. We have sent newspapers to parents, friends, brothers, servants, lovers, families, camps, and teachers. Because we like to hang around words? Because we have something to say? Because someone is sure to be listening?
What a summer it has been! What a year it will be before we gather here again! What a Life. What a Time.
What a Paradox!
Sincerely,
Ken Greenfield Ken Greenfield keng.rph@verizo n.net
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on March 4, 2001.
Those photos at the MyFamily site are nice, but it seems like there is too much emphasis on the Explorers group. Where are some photos from the Sports, Skills, Aquatics and other factions? There's got to be shoeboxes all over this country filled with great Px photos!
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on March 7, 2001.
Tom,
This morning I was meeting with my accountant Mitchell Benson, whom I learned attended Paradox. I was reading all of the entries that you have, tirelessly, chronicled. You should be commended for your work. I would like to make a few comments and tell a brief story.
I attended Paradox during 1967 and 1968. I had a junior counselor, I believe, named Billy Rice, whose name I see appears on this website over and over. I have a bone to pick with him that I has been with me for over 30 years. When I was a camper of 8 or 9 years old, he told me his father was Edgar Rice Burroughs, writer of the Tarzan books and comics. Well Billy, how's Dad? Telling stories like that to little kids..for shame!
I have, relatively, fond memories of Paradox and have seen some fellow campers over the years; Mitch Benson, Michael Gordon, Tod Gordon, Larry Gordon, Craig Zolot, Bruce Gelber, and a few others whose names escape me.
I want to tell you a brief story of a trip I had to the Adirondacks and Paradox. About 6-8 years ago (we get older, we forget exactly), I was staying at the Sagamore on Lake George. I was on a fishing and hunting trip. During some free time in the afternoon, I took a ride to Camp Paradox. A few very eerie things I noticed: I entered Rodgers Hall to find show posters (from the late 60s) still on the walls. I was in some play (as a singing extra, I think) called Zelda Was A Lady. As I walked upstairs to the old radio station, I found a record player on the floor with an old Beetles 45 still on the turntable. If that's not weird enough, I walked across to the bunk area and found one of my old bunks (I believe it might have been called Iroquois). The floors were bare except for maybe one or two mattress frames. I walked back to the cubbyholes, where I found my name written in Magic Marker on one of the cubbys. With that, I walked out (at a somewhat fast pace), got in my car, and FLEW out of there. My name was still in a cubbyhole some 25 years after I left camp for the last time. To make it more surreal, my name remained in that cubbyhole between the time I left and the time that the Landis family closed the camp.
I have told this story to Mitch Benson and the Gordon brothers. But, It feels somewhat cathartic explaining it to you. I do have a few pictures from camp with the names of some of my fellow bunkmates. They include; Brad Bernstein, Jeff Cooper, Craig Zolot, and Kenny Zolot .
I have one question, is that senior log cabin still in existence? That and the tennis courts stick out most in my mind.
Glad I could share, John Saler
Contributed by John Saler 1967-68 (JSaler@aol.com) on March 16, 2001.
Greenfield, Sorry about that humiliating experience...seemed like good idea at the time!
Contributed by Alan shier (alan553@aol.com) on March 21, 2001.
Was talking to Alan Shier this morning and he told me about the Kenny Greenfield sighting! I e- mailed a letter to Kenny apologizing for the bed. Interesting thoughts by Jon Saler, but his age old memory may be a bit off because I think he was probably at camp longer then six or eight years ago because Rodgers Hall was gone! Jon, when you next see Howie Benson ask him if he remembers engineering some radio shows for me at WCP. I am big into collecting lionel trains and recently had a mural painted for part of my train layout and on the top of the mountain is a radio station, in appropriate red and gray, WCP Radio 1000. What happened to the landis sitings? That's it for now.
Contributed by Michael Salnick (Lional Guy@aol) on March 23, 2001.
Mike, yes I do remember engineering those shows. As I mentioned in an earlier post, either with you or Mike Swerdlick, I remember playing the Doors song Light My Fire and how much that song and the sound affected me. I think thats the only record I wanted to play!! Weren't we on during rest period?? Remember the WCP Twin Spins? The name of the amps were Bogans and the two turntables would be the envy of any of the rap artists I work with - they are priceless. 1000 microwatts of Big Camp Radio operating at 1 kz on the dial!! I even remember thinking that it was interesting how the sound got to us faster through the radio then through the loud speaker on the roof.
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on March 24, 2001.
Does anybody remember the famous quotation from 'Ol Lar': "What fits fits, and what doesn't fit, doesn't fit"? Another piece of Paradox trivia: Does anybody rememer his WCP radio show called "The Long and The Short of It"? Also, someone asked previously the last name of the counselor named Wally that worked with Norm Tracy in swimming. That was the infamous Wally Sterling, and if you were seated with him at the dining hall, and pizza was being served, you were to use your fork and knife, if you knew what was good for you. So much for trivia. Ken Greenfield keng.rph@verizon.net
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on March 30, 2001.
I remember "What fits..." although I never attributed it to anyone in particular. I remember hearing it before departing for a dance at one of the girl's camps.
Regarding "Wally Sterling" - In my memory I seem to have a special category for a group of counselors from the early years. I don't know if it's because they were older in years (did they pre-date Larry and Alex?), more short termed, or what. They include: Curt Williams, Norm Tracy (who for some reason I considered a man-god.), Wally Sterling, Bob Coluni, Hugh Hurst, Bill Sunderland, um ... and I don't know who else, except of course, GER, who was there for centuries.
Anyone have any similar memory?
Contributed by Tom (tom@canby.com) on March 30, 2001.
Oh, and Rick Schuck.
Contributed by Tom (tom@canby.com) on March 30, 2001.
The 3 legged racoon did exist!! Who remembers who carved the totem pole?? And who painted the "Yellow Submarine", and what drugs were they doing??!!
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on March 31, 2001.
I don't know if my memory serves me right, but was there a kitchen worker named Marshall Carlozzi who owned a motorcycle and was killed after the '63 summer season when he was crushed between two trucks on one of the winding roads near Paradox. Also, didn't Larry have a small dog named Farmer, and also had a three legged "pet" racoon by the name of Herman who would come around the back of the dining hall. He had gotten into a fight with another animal and lost his leg. Somebody tell me, are these memories real, or are they delusions? Was there ever a Camp Paradox, or does it just just exist in the cyberspace memories of a group of deluded people spread across the country. Was that UFO hoax really a hoax? Mike Blake was never the same at the rifle range after he got hit with those "hot rocks" from the UFO. Mike Blake also owned a motorcycle, and was very much into the "Zen" philosophy. It was a great honor at the rifle range when you were allowed to shoot the "303" rifle. It was like being Bar Mitzvahed, it was a Red Badge of Couradge when you were allowed to shoot that powerfull rifle. Another memory just shot into my mind: There were two campers competing in a sit-up contest, Tom Field and Steve Zuch...
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on March 31, 2001.
Yup, Steve and I fell into a competition after the AAPHER tests limited us to 100. I think he did 333, I did 666 the next time, then he did 1000, and I did 1000 to call it a tie. (We had raw butts from the sit-ups, each record being set a day after the previous...)
I also remember the 303 rifle. Being no fan of the NRA, I'm somewhat surprised when I remember how valuable my rifle range experience (I became some sort of marksman...) was. Good discipline, etc...
Contributed by Tom (tom@canby.com) on March 31, 2001.
Racoons used to cause me all sorts of grief at the nature lodge. They were always getting into the Triplite food we kept stored there. There was one morning when I was waiting to meet some people to go fishing at around 4am in the parking lot outside the kitchen. I saw a couple of racoons go up to the back door of the kitchen, reach up and unlatch the door and let themselves in. LF McCoy eventually built a food storage room onto the kitchen that was totally lined with galvanized metal.
Then there was the time Eric Landis shot one. He skinned it and I believe Ken Moore attempted to tan the hide. I remember being totally disgusted by the whole thing but having to feign interest, me being the nature/outdoorsman counselor.
Speaking of people that loom - LF McCoy seems almost mythic. Wasn't a major portion of the camp built by him?
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on March 31, 2001.
Another life skill I took with me from my Paradox days was being able to make a great pie crust. I actually had a brief career selling peach pies at a farmer's market in my early days in Maine. I learned that skill from the women who did the laundry at camp. I got to know them pretty well since for the first two years at camp I had cabin 5 and a number of bed-wetters. We tried to keep it a secret from other campers if someone was a bed-wetter because others would tease them. Anyone with that problem was supposed to make up their bed in the morning and tell me. I would stay behind for breakfast to change the sheets and then take the wet ones to the laundry.
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on March 31, 2001.
"Summer places: to me the words are among the most haunting in the language. Tbe sound of their mingled syllables seems to hint that something exceptionally pleasurable is about to happen. In our Northerly climate, summer is but one of four seasons--a matter of a few delectable weeks of sun and flowering--and yet I doubt if I am alone in finding that my memories of summer are far more numerous, as well as far more vivid, than my memories of any other season. It is a time of adventure, of taking chances, of letting go. In the mountains the air pours its invisible Niagaras through the tops of trees, making them sing, and at night fires burn and crumble on the stone hearths. The mercy of memory lies in letting us keep what we have lost." --Brendan Gill
Well, friends of summer, this is how I found you. I was googling on Michael Salnick and I found out that he wrote the book on toy trains, and then I was led directly to this site. I read where Ken Greenfield already mentioned me; I had wondered where he had been, and Mike Sacarny too, since the time when we had the "listen-in". Alan Shier and Larry Goldman have the kind of resonance with me now of being helpful and pleasant. Two years ago when I sang the Verdi and Faure Requiems with the Hartford Chorale at Carnegie Hall I saw a poster near the stage entrance promoting a concert there, and the impresario behind it was John Schreiber. This has got to be our John Schreiber, I thought; he even brought a picture of himself to camp in 1968 of him standing by a theater poster. Do the Explorers remember climbing Big Slide with Spence Kass, Mark Friedman and myself? Do you remember the time you tried to climb McComb and ended up on E. Dix? Do you remember the Monroe Strongback, boy camper stories, or the Giant Amoeba ones by Mike Simon? Or the writing of Bruce Singer, Dave Dukes and Jim Cramer? Thank you, Tom, for putting up this site, and thanks to Ann and Alex for bringing me on board. I still climb mountains: I love the krumholz to tundra areas in Rocky Mountain National Park. The land above the trees is where I go to pursue my interest in alpine plants, where the light is strong and the winds forever blowing. I grow them down here but they miss their mountain home and keeping them going is a challenge. It is a long time since I threw a pot, but Bruce Inglis showed me how. And who can forget waterskiing with Tony Mitchell and Rick Whiteford? We went in so many different directions; did Eric know where every camper was at all times? We went to the Expo in Montreal with an overnight; we were a travelling camp, always having fun so campers could accept guidance and inspiration. Now you have a skills-side commentary about the era when man landed on the moon and we all "almost" got to Woodstock. Keep posting and write me if you like.
--Jonathan Stone jonathanstone@yahoo.com
Contributed by Jonathan E. Stone (jonathanstone@yahoo.com) on April 4, 2001.
We were better than Woodstock, and can remember it over 30 years later.
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on April 6, 2001.
of course "what fits..." belonged to ole lar. what about the yearly slogans for the next season. does anyone remember all of them? i, too, remember the montreal expo trip, especially going to, what i remembered was a great chinese restaurant --ruby foos -- at the time. but after ranzy's cooking, any chinese food was a welcome change. i remember carlozzi getting killed on a motorcycle, but i thought that was later on. do you remember going to RPI and seeing the dave clark 5? i still can't figure out why all those girls were screaming! many of us would stay up late and feed herman behind the kitchen.
i remember steve zuck doing 1000 situps, but i forgot about tom doing the same.
our list is still growing slowly, gang. keep your eyes open for missing paradoxians.
any happy passover for those into matzoh this week.
Contributed by bill rice (drbill@writeme.com) on April 9, 2001.
I barely remember the DC5 trip, but I clearly (is that now a mixed metaphor) remember going to hear Diana Ross and the Supremes in Saratoga. They had a lead-in act of some unknown kid named "Stevie Wonder." I remember them having to literally physically drag him off the stage at the end of his act, still playing - he was so wired and excited.
Contributed by Tom (tom@canby.com) on April 9, 2001.
aahhh yes, diana ross & the supremes. were we all sitting outside on the grass for that concert?
i'd like to see what became of barry kessler and his "hair treatment." his idea was to shave his head each summer to "prevent baldness." note to wayne, nj campers: not my old friend barry (class of 70).
Contributed by bill rice (drbill@writeme.com) on April 9, 2001.
Does hiking by foot to Pfortner's bring back any memories for anyone? That was where counselor Wally Sterling first introduced me to the delicate taste of a Slim Jim in the summer of '63. He also introduced me to the discipline of eating pizza with a knife and fork, a discipline he strictly adhered to at his table in the dining hall.
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on April 10, 2001.
Pfortner's and, for the intrepid, Idylwild (which I think is still there in some fasion). And, if you were really good, pizza at Schroon. I think everything at Schroon Lake was called Pitkins!!
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on April 11, 2001.
I was just reading in Time magazine last week that the inventor of Slim Jims had passed away. His story was a classic Jewish kid from Philly (?) whose product went through several incarnations until he hit it right. I thought of posting the article here, but figured no one would remember...
It was Frau Fortner, who, I guess, had a German accent and ran the place?
Question: would you allow YOUR kids to jump off the rocks across the lake from the boating area?
Contributed by tom@canby.com (tom) on April 11, 2001.
Yep, I remember going to Pfortner's for ice cream sundaes my first year (1966), which was the last year of the place. It's long gone. I recall seeing that Idlewold(wild?) had closed when I passed by camp two summers ago, too. Another trace erased...
Contributed by Marc Margolius (ravmarcm@aol.com) on April 11, 2001.
Forget about jumping off the cliffs..how about a walk down the steps in the back of cabin 10...I believe my brother threw Mike Hammelfarb off those steps???
Contributed by Alan Shier (alan553@aol.com) on April 17, 2001.
My brother reminds me that my cousin Richard Weiner painted the "Yellow Submarine" with Bruce Inglis, and that Jay Greengarden (spelling?) built the totem pole. Another trivia question that begs to be answered: didn't a counselor marry one of the nurses? Who were they?
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on April 17, 2001.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Norm "Storm" Tracy himself that married one of the nurses, and wasn't one of the nurses in one of the camp musicals, I believe it was The Love Campaign, featuring Dave Steinman as "Wintergreen for President". Some other great performances were seen in that musical, such as Dick Rossner as Throttelbottom and the late Neil Neuschatz as the Minister to France. Does anybody remember when Jim Mancebach took a relaxed golf swing on the Rodgers Hall stage, in front of a full audience, and SMASHED!!! one of spotlights, and broke into a thunderous laugh!!! Remember the "CC" award in the dining hall and what the "CC" stood for?
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on April 17, 2001.
"CC," stood for "Culinary Connoisseur ." It was an ingenious incentive to us for keeping our tables clean. Sometime in the late sixties, someone actually won, finding the key that opened the chest. I don't recall what was in it, though.
You know, it's hard for me to imagine some of these guys like Norm Tracy *not* doing a search for Paradox at some time and landing here...
Tom
Contributed by Tom Field (Tom@canby.com) on April 17, 2001.
Waiting for the net surfers to discover this site reminds me of the tools we used: record players, reel to reel tapes, an IBM Selectric to compose the Paradoxian, transistor radios to listen to WCP, Hand-written letters to home (that's what rest period was for) and the Adirondack packs made of woven wood which we packed for hikes. Maybe some of us don't have a computer yet....
Contributed by Jonathan E. Stone (jonathanstone@yahoo.com) on April 17, 2001.
Marshall "Maishe" Carlozzi may have been killed on a motorcycle, but it wasn't until after 1967. His family summered down the road, and he worked in the kitchen for a number of years before Jack Francis and I convinced him to become a counselor mid-season when we had to let some wahoo go. Marshall was studying to be an Industrial Arts teacher, and seemed to be just what we needed (the wahoo was the art counselor). He just "relocated" to a bunk at camp and did a fine job. I'm sorry to hear that he didn't get to continue the family tradition by bringing his kids to Paradox Lake. Yes, the three-legged raccoon was "trained" by Larry to eat out of one's hand - hot dogs were a favorite. Actually, here's a "mea culpa" for you. I shot a raccoon (I think during the summer of 1967, when they were scaring the heck out of everyone by getting into those garbage cans with swinging tops...and then getting stuck inside). Someone "narc-ed" on me to the conservation officer who came to camp and dispensed warnings to desist.
Oh, and I did want to thank a number of you correspondents who made nice comments about me (I seem to remember Paul Silverman, Mike Salnick, and Marc Margolius). If you e-mailed me at work, we regularly have the kind of network problems you might assume at a public institution, and I apologize if I didn't get your message, and/or did not seem to reply (this e-dress is at home). As time goes on, it is more and more difficult to get images that go with names, yet those names still do bring back great memories. L.F. McCoy did build much of Paradox. He also regularly dragged buildings around on log rollers with his old Jeep pickup pulling in low-low gear. He spent much of the winters building smaller things in his shop and fixing boats, etc. there. He also spent many hours taking snow off the roofs of buildings so they would't collapse. Once he was not around to that the elements started to work quickly. One spring I actually saw one of the smaller storage buildings near the Senior Unit flat on the ground like it was some kind of pre-fab building ready to put together. Like many of you I have been back to camp a number of times, and it is increasingly disconcerting to be unable to place things. The decay of the buildings and the growth of trees makes orienting difficult. Each time, too, I feel many emotions–primarily sadness-sadness that that place and those times will not happen again. And yet, that place was, and those times were, and I was a part o
Contributed by Bri Clifford (drbri4@aol.com) on April 17, 2001.
It seems like the racoon problem was pretty big. Earlier on in the postings it was mentioned that Eric Landis shot a racoon. Now Bri' Clifford tells us that he bagged one, and I distinctly remember when my brother, Arnie Greenfield, killed a racoon with a "22", many campers were upset with him, but he was only following orders.
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on April 18, 2001.
Greetings to all my Paradox and Paragon brothers and sisters!!!
My name is Neil Neuschatz, and
I AM NOT DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!
Contrary to what I’ve been reading, I am alive and well.
Maybe I’m fat, maybe bald, maybe old, but NOT DEAD!!!!
So, PLEASE!! Gimme a break!!
After browsing through three years worth of postings I finally narrowed it down to Billy Rice for starting this erroneous story. Where on earth did you get this information, Billy?
And you, Mike Salnick, it was awfully nice of you to refer to me in death as a “great guy”, but the part about being “burnt out”? Now that hurt!! I live in South Florida so I’ll hook up with you personally to straighten this little “misunderstanding” out!!
And to hear Ken Greenfield refer to me as the “late” Neil Neuschatz, now that was weird!! I find it ironic that me, the instigator, organizer and mastermind behind some of Paradox’s most infamous and outrageous hoaxes should become the victim of this!! (Although I don’t believe it was intentional).
Anyway, my heartfelt congratulations and sincere thanks to Tom Field and all of the contributors and participants on this site. I had no idea such a site existed until recently when an old friend tried to look me up and somehow was led here, only to read the part about me being dead! He ultimately found me and told me about this site. I’ve been reading the postings constantly since.
I intend to offer some of my own ramblings and remembrances of those thrilling days of yesteryear in the near future, but for now let me just leave it at this.
I’m back!!!
Contributed by Neil Neuschatz (nneuschatz@capitalfactors.com) on April 18, 2001.
Amazing - finding out that Neil is still alive - and that another hoax was precipitated on us unsuspecting campers!! When will it ever end! Neil - you did a great rendition of "Mrs Brown You've Got A Lovely Daughter" on one of the records if I remember correctly!! What was the name of the band that you guys were in? And , Clifford, I still can't forgive you for throwing my loafers over the roof of Bunk 6 because I wore them so much. You and Rich Rossner were my first counselors in 1965 and were still the best ones I had. Rich listened to records by a new singer all of the time - Barbara Streisand.
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on April 19, 2001.
Hidden deep in the far recesses of one of the kids’ closets is a large gray box. This box is mine, all mine, and no one is allowed to go near it. I pull it out every ten years or so, and very carefully and slowly go through its contents. It’s sort of like my “Jumanji” box. For whenever I open it I am immediately transported to a magical land where time has stood still for as much as forty years! You see, this is my “Paradox” box. A veritable treasure trove of goodies that surely must rank among the largest collections of “Paraphernalia” anywhere. Photos, letters, brochures, stationery, old “Paradoxian’s”, both from our era and from before, patches, awards, the Red Book, the Blue Book, the Gray Book, even the “Paradigm”; the handbook /manual of the “OLE”club. (This was very cool, by the way.) Every time I get into this stuff I promptly get totally consumed. For the better part of my life, and I’m now 50, I’ve always had the problem of communicating to others what the impact of going to Paradox, and being a Paradoxian had on me. I’ve never really succeeded though. Often, someone will shake their head up and down and say something like, “oh yeah, I went to summer camp too”, but after a brief exchange I usually will end the conversation thinking, they just don’t understand! And that’s the rub, for unless you were there, unless you felt that place, smelled those familiar smells, breathed that special sweet mountain air, unless you knew all of the wonderful and brilliant people that passed through over the years, unless you were a part of it all, you can never, ever “get it”. And you never will. That’s why this site, and these postings are so special. It’s incredible how we can remember so much, especially when we were all so young and from such a long time ago, yet be able to speak and recall these events and people as though it were yesterday.
By the way, Howie Benson, Paradox’s own rock group was “The Moth’s”, not likely to be inducted into the rock n’ roll hall of fame anytime soon, but comprised of Bruce Gelber on lead guitar, (he was the only kid with an electric guitar, a white Fender Mustang), Marty Scott on rhythm guitar, Jim Filenbaum on drums, Dick Rossner on Harmonica, Dave Bruskin on backing vocals and yours truly on lead vocals. Among a few memorable “live” performances, one of which was a great dance with “Woodmere”, the group was memorialized on both sides on the 1965 camp record. Our, true-to-the-original, arrangement of “Mrs. Brown” was on one side with an excerpt of us doing “Satisfaction” on the other.
Well that’s about all for now, at this point I better get back to work; rest hour is just about over.
Contributed by Neil Neuschatz (nneuschatz@capitalfactors.com) on April 19, 2001.
Neil! Welcome back! I can never hear "Alice's Restaurant" played without thinking of you.
I just got back from a week-long New York state college tour with my youngest son and Troy, NY was our last stop. We decided to take the scenic route home to Maine via Ticonderoga and the Green Mts. of Vermont - so a brief visit to Paradox was right on the way.
This was my first visit when the leaves weren't yet on the trees so I noticed some old buildings I hadn't seen on previous stops. The fairy tale of the briar patch growing up around the castle with the princess in it came to mind as we pushed our way through the young pine. From what I could remember, I suspected it was the old nature lodge. This winter in New England saw record snowfalls and it appeared that this building recently succumbed to the snow load - actually I'm surprised it had made it so far without LF's attention. The roof was collapsed but the front wall still standing. I walked inside, looking for some familiar clues - and noticed "Bunk #5" written on the wall! I was instantly transported! Bunk 5 - Iroquois, was my cabin for the first two years at camp (66-67). Walking over the roof, lying on the floor, we went into the cubby section which was still standing, reading the graffiti - like old hieroglyphs.
The cabin next door, cabin six is still pretty much intact. Just one tree branch protruding through the roof. I walked back into the bathroom area and found written on the wall, amidst the scatological scribbling, "Larry C. says . . . What fits fits, what doesn't fit doesn't" - and it was signed Jerry Ruderman '63. As I'm reading this my son yells to me from the cubby room - "Do you know Michael Salnick?" It turns out he found a business card lying on the floor "Michael Salnick - Attorney at Law".
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on April 21, 2001.
So my bunkmate in '63, Jerry Ruderman, finallly vindicates me in claiming that Larry Carpenter did utter those words, "What fits, fits...,etc."
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on April 22, 2001.
Neil's mention of his "Paradox box" brings to mind all the rewards returning counselors would receive. I'm sure someone out there can help me with this. As I recall, the first year you got the C/P pin. For returning second year counselors there was the Camp Paradox mug - mine, unfortunately, succumbed to my first son when he was a year old. For the third year there was the "Veterans Jacket" - very cool! A big red "P" with "staff" on it.
I used to wear that jacket around a lot in college. Then one time at some party I noticed this very cool bowl a friend of mine had. It had a scene in the bottom that was constructed from these beautiful blue South American butterfly wings. I just had to have it! He didn't want to part with it but finally admitted to coveting the "Camp Paradox" jacket I was wearing - so I traded. Years later I moved to Maine and he moved to New York to get involved in theatre. He visited once here in Maine and told me that on a number of occasions while wearing that jacket in NY he had these people come up to him all excited about seeing the jacket and wanting to to know when he went to the camp.
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on April 25, 2001.
I loved my “Staff” jacket. After serving two years as a CIT I felt I earned it!! Actually, my recollection is that you got your “Staff” jacket after your second year as a counselor, but didn’t get that mug until after your third year. Anyway, my jacket story is a sad one. One day, in the mid 1970’s I returned home from a hard day of work only to find that my home had been burglarized!! Frantically, I ran around the house, taking inventory of everything that was missing; the usual stuff, TV, Stereo, Camera etc. I went to my bedroom upstairs and saw my room had been ransacked. I looked over to the closet and then realized the unthinkable. My “Staff” jacket had been stolen. I was devastated. TV’s, Stereo’s and Camera’s were replaceable, but a CP “Staff” jacket? What nerve!!
Contributed by Neil Neuschatz (nneuschatz@capitalfactors.com) on April 26, 2001.
My favorite "gift" was the Paradox mug which I think dates from 1965, my first year. I still have it, it says "Howie" on it, and it has been the recipient of all types of liquids over the years, it has held all types of items from paper clips, thumbtacks, my kids baby teeth, "roaches", everything. And it has stared at me from my desk for over thirty years through thick and thin!! I also still have my "P's" up on the wall. And, my kids sometimes wear my old CP t-shirts.
Neil, when I first started producing records the first record exec I worked for was a guy who was a partner in a label called JEM records. The M in JEM stood for Marty: Marty Scott! This was in 1987 and neither on of us had put two and two together. But when he started a sub label called Paradox Records I called and asked him if by chance he knew about the Camp. Apparently he got the bug from doing those records at Paradox and formed this company during school with his friends. At one point that company was the largest independent in the country, but eventually, in 1990, went under. I lost touch with him about then.
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on April 27, 2001.
I still have my “camper” mug too. I think I got mine in ’64. But I remember that when they sent them out to us they included two orange “fizzies” in the package. Now that was cool!!!
It seems that Paradox had this never-ending array of novelties and gifts they used to either reward people with or give out just for fun. I think Ole Lar was probably behind most of this. He was crazy about this kind of stuff.
Does anybody remember getting a Camp Paradox gym bag? You’d have to be a real old timer like me to remember this one. Maybe Mike Karol or Dave Armstrong might recall this one. How about a Camp Paradox belt buckle, or even the coveted 5-year ring, with the CP crest on it?
One of my personal favorites though was the acquisition of a Paradox tee shirt that was left over from the prior management era. Probably, from the late 1950’s. GER always had a few of these gems, as did Carpenter and a few others. I think Bri Clifford may have had one too. They were gray, with a small embroidered “P” on a chest pocket. You couldn’t get these for the asking, but if you looked around enough in some of the older storage buildings around the dining hall or program office you just might get lucky and find them.
I did!!
Contributed by Neil Neuschatz (nneuschatz@capitalfactors.com) on April 27, 2001.
As I recall, the cup with fizzie was for first- time returning campers. The gym bag was for 2nd time. I don't recall the ring, Neil. Nor can I recall what one got for returning on years after #2.
Tom
Contributed by Tom (tom@canby.com) on April 27, 2001.
Found this about Marty Scott on the internet: http://www.worlds.net/news/PressReleases/prn035.html
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on April 27, 2001.
Did anybody go to any of the winter reunions? I remember in '64 we went to the New York Worlds Fair, and were first introduced to a counselor who was coming on board for the '64 summer season by the name of Jack Francis.
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on April 27, 2001.
'64 was a good season in Cabin 11b along with Alan Shier, Jerry Rockoff, Jerry Ruderman, John Rothenberg, Andy Drogin, David Cipes, John Wienshienk, counselors George Hurst(Hugh's brother) and Charlie Fischer. We were the only cabin in the camp with a mascot: George Hurst's dog Niki.
My memory is still a little foggy, but I believe we won the 3 day Montreal trip that summer, yet I can't recall what project we carried to win that trip. What I remember most about that summer is how counselor John Bloodwell liked to come around and make Jerry Rockoff laugh. He used to do a good Donald Duck impression that would send Jerry Rockoff into fits of laughter. I believe it is even captured on the '64 Camp Record.
Another talent of John Bloodwell was that he could get onstage, put on the clown make-up, and be transformed into "The Clown" character before your very eyes.
Another random memory from the summer of '64, and I don't know why this stands out so vividly in memory, yet it does seem emblazoned in my memory, was The Most Disgusting Camper Contest in '64, and it went to: Alan Osofsky. It is hard to put into words what he looked like under the footlights of Rodgers Hall, but it was repulsive, gross, distasteful, etc.
So many things stand out in the summer of '64, and one other incident that happened on the Rodgers Hall stage was when Jimmy Mancbach took a casual swing with one of his golf clubs on stage, and casually knocked out one of the spotlights, and casually fell into one of his thunderous laughs.
Another incident that I "think" happened in the summer of '64 was when Alan "Bozo" Levinson was indirectly hit by lightning. Apparently he was touching his bed when lightning struck the cabin and was conducted through the metal in his bed.
I still have the felt baseball-type pennant that counselor Charlie Fischer made for all the cabinmates in 11b in '64; It has written on it(very artistically): 11B NIKI'S NUDNIKS A GREAT CABIN IN 1964 Good Luck,
Charlie
There is a photograph in the middle of the pennant with all the guys in the cabin in the photo. My memory is getting better now: We did win that Montreal trip that summer!!!! I'm sure of it!!! Although I still can't recall the project that we did to win it, but I know we had a grand old time up in Montreal, and I know that Mike Salnick mentioned once that Charlie Fischer was a "Nathan Lane" type of character, all I know is that he was a great and talented guy, and that Nathan Lane himself is currently a big hit on Broadway in the musical version of The Producers.
In '64 I also found a cabinmate who shared my passion for James Bond. Yes, I thought I was the only 11 year old James Bond freak around until I met David Cipes. His father worked at Signet Books, the Publishing House that put out the then 0.50$ priced books. He would read the synopsis on the back of the book with such expression, such flare, it could make a Bond convert out of anyone.
If anybody has the '64 Paradox record, would they please play it and see if it has indeed captured Jerry Rockoff's irrepressible laugh, instigated by John Bloodwell. I had a complete collection of Paradox records, which, for some insane reason, I gave to Marc Stern's sister, who had gone to Paragon. She misplaced them, and the complete collection, which I valued dearly, is gone. I was wrong when I said Bloodwell did a Donald Duck impression. It was better than an impression. You could understand every word that he said, only he said it through a Donald Duck voice. Rockoff would go through convulsions of laughter. I suppose the main thing that made the '64 season special is that all of us in Cabin 11b pulled together to win the Montreal trip, though I haven't got the foggiest idea what we did to win it. And it was great to have a dog as a mascot. And although 4 summers later I was to wind up in the exalted "Log Cabin"(#30), it wasn't the same as this special mix of campers: Rockoff, Rothenberg, Ruderman, Shier, Cipes, Drogin, Wienshienk, and myself. And for some strange reason, the images and events of Camp Paradox '64 are more clearly etched upon my brain than any one of the six seasons I spent there, but each season was glorious in its own way.
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on April 28, 2001.
So glad that Neil Neushatz is alive and well. Guess the old foot and mouth disease I developed during all those summers is still ailing me! I wrote Neil and privately ate humble pie. Howie Benson, your posting regarding people saying "oh yea, I went to camp too" rings so true. It just gets to me when someone says that because no matter where someone went to camp, including my own three kids who have been in camp forever, no one anywhere anytime had the same experiences we former paradoxians have. Great comment. AS to the paradox goodies: Before you started your first year you got a small mug with the fizzies and a note with some saying (probably made up by Carpenter) which you were supposed to say before drinking the damn stuff. First year you got a pin and the second year it was the bag. Third year as I recall was the belt buckle and you could go to Uncle Tom's cabin and have Sten Nordh, Elson Benedict, or whomever was in charge that particular year help you make a belt. The fourth year escapes me, but the fifth year was a ring. I still have most of that stuff except the bag. I also have my third level "P" jacket which doesn't quite fit as well but I can still button it. For a number of years after 1970 I was angry at Mr. Landis for closing the camp and took the paradox letters off, but the third level P is still in tact and in great shape. I also recently found my small cache of signs "borrowed" when I visited years ago. I am hoping to get up there this summer as my son, having spent seven years at Kutsher's Sports Academy, is returning as a golf counselor and when I visit him I am hoping to take a detour up the Northway. We should really plan a weekend and meet up there. Maybe Jim Cramer could send one of his big and extra limosines for all of us.
Ken Greenfield's bunk in "64, 11B did win a trip to Montreal for the neatest cabin. I was in 11A and recall being angry for not winning. I was with a bunch of less then remembereds as I will call them. Jon Kauffman, Alan Shapiro(pronounced Sha-pie-ro) Jeff Osman John Sack Peter Selwyn Paul Schnell and Steve Zuch. The counselors were Dave Leslie, Chuck Rule, and a CIT named Dave Clayman. The reason '64 sticks out for me is that it was my first of many great seasons. Does anyone know where Eric Landis is? How come you all think he won't come out of the woodwork? I spoke with Alan Miller last week who is a reporter with the LA Times. The brothers Swerdlick live in Los Angeles. Peter is a shrink and Michael a screenwriter. Here is a trivia question which Howie Benson can't answer nor anyone from Philadelphia: Who was the camper who's family either owned or published Billboard Magazine? What activity did Steve Glass teach? What college did Steve Kuzman go to? Who was Ken Stiles? Who was Bruce Stead? That's it for now. Neil let me hear from you. Bruce Graye: Have you ever heard from "Bullet" Bob Segan over the years?
Contributed by Michael Salnick (Lionelguy@AOL) on May 1, 2001.
1964, a year that will live in infamy!! This was a very special year for my cohorts and me. The group consisted of Bruce Gelber, Dick Rossner, Scott Landis, Dave Bruskin, Marty Scott and myself. It seems that camper enrollment had reached a new high since Landis & Carpenter had started out with quite a few last minute signings. So much so that they actually overbooked (slightly) and couldn’t accommodate all the seniors in the existing senior unit cabins. Over in the woods, behind cabin 20 was another building that was heretofore used exclusively as a staff residence. Primarily senior unit counselors or other camp orphans like Bill Sunderland, who had nowhere else to go, would live there. This little building was called “The Pine Tree Cabin”.
Upon our arrival at camp in the summer of ’64, Larry told us, that he had placed our group in this “special” little building. It was the cabin described above and they changed the name to Cabin 21. The floor plan of this building was indeed unique in that it had four separate bedrooms with a center hallway going down the middle of the building all the way to the back, where there was a screened porch. We were thrilled, until we came to learn that the six of us would occupy the rooms, with two guys in each room and that the fourth room would have to be assigned to a counselor, who had no other place to go. That counselor was Hugh Hurst!! Now Hugh was a nice guy, could be kind of tough, and was a complete jock and somewhat of a disciplinarian. We thought that seniors weren’t supposed to have counselors in their cabins, and that this arrangement made us, the oldest campers at the time, feel like fools!! We hated this deal.
So after about two days of camp off to Carpenter we went. “Larry, we begged, this just won’t work”, we thought he’d try to connive us into going along with the program and we knew what a salesman he could be, but to our surprise he caved in and agreed to evict Hugh Hurst!! This was a major accomplishment.
After Hugh departed we were left with an empty room. Now this is where the story gets interesting. Just by chance we somehow got to go on a day trip, I think this might have been the first year of OCC’S, to Ticonderoga. While shopping around in “Ti” we stumbled upon a store that sold, among other things, used appliances. This group had a wild imagination, and within minutes we had spotted what we believed would be the perfect compliment to our vacant room. A REFRIGERATOR!!!!.
Our counselor, Rick Schuck, thought we were nuts as did every other person we dared to tell our idea to. With one exception. Larry said, “Yes, why not, it would be a fun thing”!! We were floored, but the very next day we recruited LF McCoy to go into “Ti” with us with his truck and help us bring back our refrigerator.
The rest, as they say, is history. “Chez 21” was born. We decorated the spare room to resemble a den. We filled the refrigerator with all sorts of food and drink. I remember going up to Rodgers Hall and with Gerry’s help, putting together a record player made up of old parts from WCP. The final piece was when we acquired a bar-b-que and actually grilled hamburgers and hot dogs in the bunk, out on the porch. Do you know how dangerous that was?? Six fourteen year olds and fire generally don’t mix! We got everything in order and subsequently sent invitations out to most of the staff to join us for the gala grand opening of “Chez 21”. What a soiree’. What a year, 1964!!!
Now that was living!!!
Contributed by Neil Neuschatz (nneuschatz@capitalfactors.com) on May 2, 2001.
Ken Whitehead was the campcraft counselor.
John D. Schreiber is in NYC. I read of him in the NY Times and contacted him more than a year ago. We exchanged some e-mail and he told me he'd visit the site and post. Since then... nothing.
As for LDC's post, I doubt it's authentic. If it is authentic, then my apologies for doubting, Mr. Carpenter.
However, if it *is* LDC, he should be able to tell us *something* or *somethings* about which only he knew. Perhaps we can start with asking him where mung comes from. I believe he may be one of the few who can tell us the secret source of mung, as he told it to me and a few others. (Actually, I bet Jack and Bri know, but I don't consider them the kind who would mock themselves up as LDC.)
Tom
Contributed by Tom Field (tom@canby.com) on May 5, 2001.
One thing I clearly remember about Camp, and it strikes me alot living in L.A., were the amazing lightening and thunderstorms we would have during the summer. In L.A. we get a minor one or so each year, but I always tell my friends and my kids about the Paradox ones that would make me hide under the covers or pray to see the "OD" walking by. We sure got scared!! The cabin shook and the shutters would be brought down for the rain and the bunk would get very dark and forboding. Every guy in my bunk would switch on their flashlights under the covers!!
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on May 7, 2001.
I remember mung, the International Mung Society, and the rest. I think that I still have my ring. I know I have all of the records and the mug.
Does anyone remember the Howie Kretz club and the purple stuff they put on the big toe on the first hike?
Contributed by Marc Stern (mstern at abanet.org) on May 8, 2001.
Marc and Tom, those societies (Mung and Howie Kretz) were secret and no one was supposed to talk about the initiation rites. I was sworn in as one of the bearers of that most secret of wisdom and thus am unable to fill everyone in on all the details of the related ceremonies.
It's funny you should bring up Howie Kretz, Marc. I was just the other week working on my project to transfer some 8mm film I have of camp to mpeg files so I can upload them to the MyFamily.com site. One of the segments is a rare(actually, only) filming of the Howie Kretz initiation rite featuring John Saler. Also shown is the ritual of attempting to push the huge boulder over the edge of a cliff. I figure that the statue of limitations has run out as far as sworn secrecy goes and I hope to post that soon.
Speaking of other secrets, does anyone remember the secret campsite down from the cliffs behind the Junior cabins? It was surprisingly secluded from everything considering how close it was to camp. I spent an entire day off there once, catching up on sleep in one of the jungle hammocks.
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on May 8, 2001.
Ah, the JUNGLE HAMMOCKS! I tried to describe one to someone in the past several weeks! I remember a large log frame built behind the green vermiculite stadium (a lashing demonstration??) with, I believe, a jungle hammock strung up. What a cool hammock.
Contributed by Tom (tom@canby.com) on May 9, 2001.
Among the many “secret” societies we had at camp was one that I was a member of. Does anyone out there lay claim to being a member of the “Jester’s” club? The full name was the “Jesters of Kibitzing Echolalia” for which the acronym J.O.K.E. stood. Larry even had membership cards printed, but I regret I lost mine. The act of “echolalia” was a skill whereby you would try to speak the same words, at the same time as another person was speaking, or in effect to produce an “echo” of the speaker.
Contributed by Neil Neuschatz (nneuschatz@capitalfactors.com) on May 9, 2001.
I thought that the rifle range was behind the Junior cabins. The camp site was behind the sophmore cabins, or was there another camp site?
Contributed by Marc Sterm (mstern@abanet.org) on May 9, 2001.
There was another smaller, secluded campsite. It was down behind the Junior cabins between where the rifle range was and the boating area. It had a steep cliff behind it and was barely visible from the lake. As I recall, it almost felt like a shallow cave. I would take small groups of campers there for "secret" cookouts.
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on May 9, 2001.
here goes again. The rifle range was down the hill to the left of bunk 11A. There was a tetherball pole (anyone rember the great color war tetherball match between Joe Jacobs and Alan Moskowitz?) near the area and as you went down the hill towards the swimming area there was a path that cut to the right you went down and there was the rifle range. I remember as a kid when Curt Williams ran it how formal it was. He was a little scary to me as a kid. What LCD siting are you all talking about? Neil I thought echoalia was some legal term and I have been using it for years! It has a nice ring to it. Anyone remember the Martian Hoax with Mike Blake having a burned arm or something? Anyone recall the year my table won the CC award and I picked the damn key which opened the treasure chest and won a clock radio? Tom Field, my paradox jacket isn't where I thought but I know I have it. See ya. Salty
Contributed by Michael Salnick (Lionel Guy @AOL) on May 9, 2001.
"Summer is relaxation, summer the sun is high, summer's an invitation, from a smiling sky, days drift by..." The lyrics are from 1963's "Body Beautiful," that summer's Parent's Day musical, by Bock and Harnick, the guys who ultimately wrote "Fiddler on the Roof." The play was about boxing and divorce, Scott Landis had the lead. I was one of the kids in Joe Koplin's gang, then took over one of the female parts in an emergency. Every time I think of that song, I am transported to the stage in Rodgers Hall. So sorry it doesn't exist anymore. Kenny Greenfield (sorry, you'll always be Kenny to me), it was a blast reading your memories. I do believe we visited (maybe with Jerry and others) outside of the camp season, since you were a hop, skip and a jump away in Metuchen. Are you still in N.J.? Here's a shout out at ya, I remember you had a fairly even temper but once we riled you up ... watch out. Neil, it was obviously fine to hear you're still with us. I did have the Paradox gym bag for the longest, it just kind of disintegrated after a while. Still have the belt buckle and the mug, along with a red and gray felt piece with logo to which my Mom sewed all my patches to. I remember you and Dick Rossner dressed up in faux tux outfits to hand out the first CP drama awards. Also being in awe of your stage talent. This is indeed the time of year to remember camp. Wanted you all to know that I just published my first book, "Lucy A to Z," about the life of Lucille Ball. You can go to iUniverse.com and look it up. (Well whadja expect from a skillsie? "How to Hike the Adirondack Trails"??!!) And where the heck is my favorite counselor, Norm Tracy?? Hope all are well. Peace and love.
Contributed by Michael Karol (paradoxboy@planetaccess.com) on May 10, 2001.
Neil, you're right. it was a great hoax, but absolutely unintentional. i admit to receiving, what i thought was, information from a reliable source, that alludes me at the moment (ah, the source of the hoax). i am terribly sorry for creating your early demise. interesting, tho. how is it we can resurrect neil, but can't locate eric landis or larry? i, too, was a member of the JOKE club and still practice echolalia from time to time. got to run back to office, now but will stay in touch. i apologize to all our readers who were misinformed. unfortunately, the note about marty kocivar's death was from his brother and accurate. one more note, neil: your bbq was nothing compared to rickey m, marty k, kenny k and i making a small fire on the porch of cabin 17 in '66 (after blowing up our toilet on the 3rd day of camp) because it was a bit cold out. steve k, our counselor came in and nearly went thru the roof (rightfully so). now that was pretty stupid! ciao
Contributed by bill rice (drbill@writeme.com) on May 10, 2001.
Steve Kuzman went to Ithaca College as Hugh Hurst brought him with him along with the Gustavson twins. Neil- You did the best Rizzutto impression '.
Contributed by Bruce Graye (bgraye@aol.com) on May 10, 2001.
Mike Karol, it was good to read your posting. Yeh, I'm still in New Jersey, in fact, still in
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on May 10, 2001.
All of these "old campers". Where are my old bunkmates, Buzzy Aaron, Barry Stepner, Scot Davis, Eric Wise, Ron Stack(eroo), Mike Swerdlick et al. Also Marc Cohen, and Mark Adler (one year each), and counselours Angelo Contelmo (sp?), Bruce Bohem etc. Anyone remember the aquatics area guy from Fresno 1969-1970?
I have to say the the camp experience went downhill after the 1968 season. For better or worse the culture changes in the country at the time were definitly affecting the camp morale. Any thoughts on that?? I was too young to really perceive it but it felt like there was less routine at the camp and more counselours "doing their thing". Maybe the Paragon addition was too much for the Alex to handle.
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on May 11, 2001.
Mung came from evaporated milk didn't it? I seem to recall that don't any of you. Where the heck has Howie Uniman been through all these postings? Michael Karol "kudos" on the new book!
Contributed by Michael Salnick (Lionel Guy @ AOL) on May 11, 2001.
As i remember, mung had it's origination on a camping trip Lar took with some friends to the Muskoga (sp.?) Lakes region of Canada. I don't remember how, but a can of Eagle Brand Condensed Milk got into the fire, and eventually exploded, scattering the area with mung. Those of us introduced to it later poked a hole in the can to reduce the explosive tendencies. I remember that it was almost impossible to get off the "mung spoon" the next morning. I'll bet there are more than a few spoons reposing near campsites throughout the 'daks....
Contributed by Bri Clifford (drbri4@aol.com) on May 11, 2001.
Mung came from Eagle Brand evaporated milk which was then placed in the fire until it did what ever it did. It came from a camping trip which Larry was on in Canada and the milk was the last food left, there was some sort of altercation and the can landed in the fire, (or so I remember the story). The rest is history.
Congratulation on the book - Mike. Who is the pubisher?
Contributed by Marc Stern (mstern@abanet.org) on May 11, 2001.
Mike Karol, it was good to read your posting. Yeh, I'm still in New Jersey, in fact, I'm still in Metuchen. I was away for a while, but you know how the "Bright Lights, Big City" keeps drawing you back!! I remember how I used to torment you with my cornball sense of humor in Cabin 16A and then again in Cabin 18. Norm Tracy was also my favorite counselor, just for the mere fact of being Norm. When he was being Norm, he was being cool. I remember in '68, my last year as a camper, we were supposed to be very responsible acting Senior campers. Anyhow, we used to go down to the boat house, where the gasoline tank was, get a cup of gas, and bring it back up and then look for the driest patch of earth that we could find. We would slowly, carefully pour the gas into the dry earth so that it would be fully absorbed. Then we would take off our shoes and socks, light the earth on fire, and then with our bare feet we would kick "Great Balls of Fire!!" Do not try this stunt at home, or somebody might try to cart you away!!
On the last night of camp in '68, a few of us who lived in the Log Cabin decided to pull the moosehead from its regular place above the fireplace, but then we did't know what to do with it. An idle mind is the devil's workshop(or how ever that phrase goes) but it didn't take long until we came up with a plan. We brought the moosehead right underneath the kitchen window at Chez Paradox, scratched on the screen with a twig, then held the moosehead up to the screen. George Jerome, the counselor on duty, screamed, "Oh, My God!!! A Reindeer!!!" We all burst into laughter and went running away, now convinced that our years of being campers had not been wasted.
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on May 11, 2001.
Yes, mung was from the Eagle brand condensed milk, as Ole Bri and others described. As I recall the ceremony, Larry revealed to us the "true" etymology of mung (which I'll hint has something to do with corks and orifices of certain wild animals...)
Tom
Contributed by Tom Field (tom@canby.com) on May 14, 2001.
I haven't thought about the Jesters since I left camp. I seem to remember that Billy Rice was particularly good at the echolalic skill. Odd for someone so quiet, huh?
As Jim Anderberg mentioned, I guess the statute of limitations is up. I think that the Howie Kretz stuff was gentian violet from the nurse's office.
Contributed by Bri Clifford (drbri4@aol.com) on May 14, 2001.
Yes, gentian violet when we could get it. As the movie clip will attest (as soon as I can borrow a friends PC) in a pinch we used a purple magic marker.
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on May 14, 2001.
Since no one has posted lately, I thought I would and hopefully get a good "run" of postings going again. Merely thirty-one years ago today, we were all counting down the days until we could return to what we knew was the best. Thirty one years! Man, where did the time goes. This summer one son is headed on a tour of the Pacific Northwest, my daughter to Europe and my oldest son to camp in the, pardon the expression, "Catskills" to work as a counselor. None of us would ever hear of abandoning Paradox for a summer for a trip elsewhere. Sure, I recall the summer Mike Karol went to Israel or Europe, but that was a big deal back then. I had the chance to do the same, but wouldn't think of it. At any rate, it is time to seriously start thinking about a reunion and getting it together. My wife suggested that we all have to fly into a particular place to that we know in advance who has committed to show up so we can plan accordingly. I would think maybe a place like Atlanta would work. Years ago I rented a house on Schroon Lake...we could rent a few places up there. Time for some feedback my friends and former campers because if just continue to discuss it we will never get it done. Don't any former paradoxians own or have some control over some hotels. Jim Cramer, I promise not to make fun of your throwing arm if you can get us a block of hotel rooms somewhere. Time for some postings gentleman.........Salty
Contributed by Michael Salnick (Lionelguy@AOL) on May 27, 2001.
First, I would like to thank Mike Salnick for breaking the 2 week silence on the message board. I was wondering how long it would last! Second, Mike is also right on the mark about the reunion. We can reminisce forever on the message board, but the message boad was started in 1999, it is now 2001, and none of us are getting any younger!!
I think a place like Schroon Lake or Lake George would be good for the reunion, because it would bring back a familiar backdrop, which would stir up old memories. A place like Atlanta might sound nice, but it isn't conducive to bringing back old memories, which is why we would be having the reunion.
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on May 27, 2001.
greetings paradoxians! 2 weeks without a word from anyone -- life is busy. as i have posted in the past, paradoxians are spread out all over the country at this point and altho the adks would be nice, it is terribly inpractical for our group. i still vote for las vegas as an easy place to fly in/out of out inexpensively from all over the country. it is a place with plenty of hotel rooms and meeting facilities to accommodate our group. and if anyone chooses to bring their families there will plenty to do for everyone (DON'T MISS THE STARTREK EXHIBIT AT THE HILTON, fellow trekkies!) step 1) we need to pick a few possible dates and places. step 2) make plans, get commitments and numbers. i'll keep data centralized keep everyone posted on progress. those of you who check postings here are obviously more involved and interested so i'll ask you first to provide me with 2 or 3 choices of dates (in 2002) and locations. i'll take the top 2 or 3 choices of dates and email them to everyone on my list and wait for a response. if anyone wants to help with this project or has a better idea -- please speak up.
hope eveyone had a nice long weekend...
Contributed by bill rice (drbill@writeme.com) on May 28, 2001.
Having recently been to the Adks, I think it's too out of the way. Having been to Atlanta, twice, I can't imagine any reason to go back. Sorry, Mike, but unless it's the winter, it's too hot.
Vegas would be OK, it's easy to get to. Somewhere in the NY/Philly corridor would be OK, however, during the summer it has the same problems as Atlanta. What about Atlantic City?
On the other hand, there is something to be said about Schroon and/or Paradox. Other than the Southerland Cottages, does anyone know of a place with enough hotel space?
MSS
Contributed by Marc Stern (mstern@abanet.org) on May 29, 2001.
My vote is for a place in the Adirondacks. As Michael just mentioned and Neil back in April, the sights and smells of the Adirondacks are powerful attractions.
Perhaps Lake George as Michael suggested or Lake Placid as I mentioned in one of my previous postings.
Here's the promo from one web site I found regarding Lake Placid.
New York's Olympic Region is one of the great playgrounds of North America, offering year-round fun and excitement. Nestled in the northeastern portion of the Adirondack wilderness of New York State, the rugged mountain scenery, heavy winter snows, and a pleasant summer climate combine to make this a popular tourist year-round resort. The Olympic facilities used for the 1932 and 1980 Olympic Winter Games, Santa's Workshop, Highfalls Gorge, and other tourist attractions make this area fabulous for family vacations !
If they hosted the 1980 Olympics, there's got to be enough housing.
Being there would also put us within an easy drive of a visit back to Paradox and perhaps a hike up Peaked Hill or some diving off those cliffs.
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on May 29, 2001.
Sure, Atlanta is easy to fly into, but way too boring. I agree with Ken Greenfield in that it just doesn’t evoke that good ol’ camp feeling. By that same reasoning Las Vegas doesn’t do it either, albeit somewhat centrally located. (??) I was going to suggest Florida, in that it is relatively inexpensive to get to, some of us are already here, millions of rooms etc., but I think Marc Stern would melt, so forget that idea. Unless, of course, Jimmy Ragona could rig up a private circus for us!!!
This is a lot harder than I thought it would be!!
Overall, probably Jim Anderberg is on the right track. Just to add another alternative however, Saratoga Springs might be worth considering, in that it is on the fringe of the ‘daks, is quite a hopping spot these days (supposedly), within an easy drive to Lake George, Schroon Lake and Paradox and is considerably closer to New York and Boston as possible fly-in locations for out of town visitors. Not to mention the ancestral home of GER!!
Contributed by Neil Neuschatz (nneuschatz@capitalfactors.com) on May 29, 2001.
Saratoga sounds good. I even remember OCCs to Katie Ross amusement park there.
MSS
Contributed by Marc Stern (mstern@abanet.org) on May 29, 2001.
I vote for ground zero - either Schroon Lake (there are a lot of places to stay - motels all along the main drag) or Lake Placid or George. It would not be the same without spending time at Camp. FYI - when I visited there 6 years ago I hung out with the family that built a cabin near where 16 A and B was - they were very nice and even had some old Paradoxians around. They showed me around the new grounds and I "thrilled" them with stories about the camp. I even went into bunk 17 and told them about the names on the rafters that were still there. Their son used the bunk as his room and had always wondered who Howie Uniman etc al were! I could call them and let them know we were coming for a day and maybe they would be accomodating to us - it is private property now. Cliff diving would be great!! Maybe Flonacher and me could do a little dive as well. And a trip to Crawford (or a swim). What bliss!
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on May 30, 2001.
I wonder what the state of the old campfire area is like. Although I didn't walk down there when I visited the camp this April, I got the feeling that area was undeveloped. Wouldn't it be fun to have another campfire there?
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on May 30, 2001.
I did walk down there. There may be a picture of the area that I sent to Tom. It was cleared.
Contributed by Marc Stern (mstern@abanet.org) on May 30, 2001.
I vote for the one of our old haunting grounds, even though it would be quite far from where I live. Any place else wouldn't evoke the feeling and, yes, it why do it if we can't visit the old Camp, jump in the lake, have a campfire or whatever. Sorry, Billy, you'll have to find another excuse to go to Vegas. Lake George, Lake Placid, Saratoga Springs, any of those would be fine.
Contributed by Bruce Singer (saltcreek@charter.net) on May 30, 2001.
I definitely like the idea of an ADK rendenzvous, regardless of location. What could be better than strolling the streets of Lake George, Karmelkorn in hand, hunting for junk? Let's GO!
Contributed by Marc Margolius (ravmarcm@aol.com) on May 30, 2001.
well, i'm glad to hear from some west coasters. adks was always my first choice, but i thought the traveling from those out west would be a problem. since that does not appear to be the case, let's shoot for the adks! and in that case lake george is a good bet. the sagamore has a lovely facility that should handle all of us. do we want to do it in the summer (high season)? or before memorial day? or after labor day? now what time does the bus leave from alexander's?
Contributed by bill rice (drbill@writeme.com) on May 30, 2001.
Mike Gordon tells me that his wife, Robin went to Woodmere, and they had a reunion not long ago at the camp.
Obviously, that's impossible for us, but I don't see a reunion making a whole lotta sense if we aren't near "ground zero" as someone else put it so well.
I know that hotel/motel space in the Lake Placid area is somewhat costly now (I have family who have vacationed there as recently as last summer), but Lake George would probably be more reasonably priced...and there would be stuff for the kids to do.....
Contributed by Hal Goldner (hgoldner@goldnerlaw.com) on May 31, 2001.
http://www.sunderlandcottages.com/ Is on Lake Washington, across, sort of, from camp. Bill Sunderland worked at Paradox for several years and I believe one of his daughters and/or his wife worked at Paragon. I don't know what capacity they have but it is an idea.
Contributed by Marc Stern (mstern@abanet.org) on June 1, 2001.
I believe Sunder Land cottages are on Paradox Lake - on the side opposite of where the camp was. I notice that Toni Sunderland is mentioned as a contact on their web pages. I thought she was a counselor at Paragon in '66, but I don't see her mentioned in the '66 album - there is a Gretchen Sunderland, however. I ran into Toni about 10 years ago at a Rudolf Steiner Institute conference here in Maine where she was taking classes on Waldorf schools. Sunder Land sounds like a great place to meet, especially if it is indeed on Paradox Lake. Even if there isn't enough space for everyone, some could stay in Schroon and commute. I'd consider putting up a tent if they had bathroom facilities available. We should check with them to see if the summer of 2002 isn't already booked.
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on June 1, 2001.
i think jim is correct that the sunderland cottages are on the opposite side of paradox lake. i think for a successful reunion we should all be together in the same place, where we can eat together and get together and then go to the camp or whatever. lake george is less than 30 min. from paradox. perhaps bustling schroon lake has some larger facility for us if we want to be closer to ground zero. next question is WHEN, what season, month, etc. would be best for everyone. lake george and any of the resort areas will be most pricey from 1 july to labor day. if you want a better rate we could shoot for just after labor when the price is better and it the weather is still pleasant. speak up, guys.
Contributed by bill rice (drbill@writeme.com) on June 2, 2001.
I vote for July 4th weekend of 2002. The 4th falls on a Thursday.
We stay in Schroon - I am sure we can find a place there that will book a bunch of rooms.
We travel on Wednesday the 3rd, meet that day , and hang the 4th, 5th 6th. Three full days should be enough. Then travel back the 7th (Sunday).
First day we hang at Camp and explore and do a campfire. Next day an OCC to Lake George or Placid. Maybe Saturday day a hike (small EASY hike Anderberg!!) with our kids etc. And Sunday we go to the swimming area and sing Ameci and go.
How is that??
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on June 2, 2001.
Howard, I was thinking of Owl Pate for old times sake.
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on June 2, 2001.
Speaking of the fourth of July, how many of you remember the fireworks the camp would put on? That production has got to be the most hair-raising part of camp for me. One of the responsibilities of the campcraft department was doing the fireworks display every 4th. As a 20-year-old, I thought it was really cool, but I would hate to think of letting any of my sons do it now! As I recall, the first year I was there ('66) Jack and Brian let me help them. Then I graduated to being in charge of the whole operation. I thought it was an honor at the time, but in retrospect it's probably because no one else was stupid enough.
We'd bury these 4" mortars in the sand at the swimming area. Each mortar had someone that was responsible for loading the shell and clearing out the burning paper left after firing with a broomstick that had a bent nail in the end. I was the one with the flare that ran across once the mortars were loaded and lit the fuses. The fuse ran down to the bottom of shell where there was a big charge of black powder that would propel the cartridge out. It was important, once the shell had blown out, to clear out any burning paper left in the mortar or the next shell loaded would fire prematurely. There is one very memorable moment when that happened - just as I ran up to light one it blew. Certain events in life leave a visual image indelibly imprinted in your mind -- I can still see the white fence, with everyone standing along it through the haze of the smoke.
I think it must have been the next year when some of the campers bought me an old army tank helmet they found at a war surplus store.
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on June 2, 2001.
I think everyone going to the reunion should receive a commemorative mug with their name on it and it should also say "Camp Paradox Reunion 2002". Of course, the next thing we need is the camp reunion slogan or motto. It could go like this:
IT'S CAMP PARADOX FOR ME AND YOU
IN THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND, ZERO, ZERO, AND TWO.
Contributed by Ken Greenfield (keng.rph@verizon.net) on June 3, 2001.
ken: i don't know about the commemorative mug (complete with fizzies), but slogan's a must!
any other ideas or suggestions on places or dates for the reunion? remember if we do summer in lake george the cost will be much higher. and if that's a problem for everyone 4 july sounds great to me, too! and if that's what we decide, we'll have to start making arrangements NOW!
so keep posting!
Contributed by bill rice (drbill@writeme.com) on June 4, 2001.
I don't think that it's a good idea to do it during the peak season, especially not the 4th of July. Lake George is a zoo for July and August. I'd propose after Labor as a time when accomdations would be easier and somewhat less expensive...
Tom
Contributed by Tom Field (tom@canby.com) on June 4, 2001.
I vote for the Adirondacks. Yep, it's out of the way, but still beautiful and full of the memories we all have. Paul Smith's College near Saranac runs a hotel in Saranac (to train students), and has a lovely campus on a lake outside of town. Might be a possibility, and they might have space (at least at the college) during the summer).
Contributed by Bri Clifford (drbri4@aol.com) on June 6, 2001.
I appreciate the desire to make the reunion after labor day for crowds and cost, but anyone who has kids knows that this is next to impossible. Once school starts, and most now do the week before labor day, the schedule is packed. And up until the 3rd week pf June the same can be said. So I would hate to eliminate us campers with campers- to-be from the reunion. 7/4 is good because of the very long weekend next year.
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on June 8, 2001.
I can't make a July 4th reunion.
How about some time in August?
Contributed by Tom Field (tom@canby.com) on June 8, 2001.
Any time in August would work for me.
Contributed by Jim Anderberg (jamesa@ctel.net) on June 8, 2001.
And me
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on June 8, 2001.
It would be best if it were immediately before or after the ABA convention which is usually the first week in August.
Contributed by mstern@abanet.org (Marc Stern) on June 10, 2001.
I thought the ABA disbanded years ago. Oh, ok you lawyers, you can go to your convention.
Contributed by Howard Benson (maxibenson@aol.com) on June 12, 2001.